[vc_row][vc_column][vc_column_text]Brian Keating in conversation with Jim Simons

Jim Simons: a legacy in three parts

Subscribe to my mailing list to receive blog posts the day they are published: http://briankeating.com/mailing_list.php

Jim Simons has known me since I was born and has been a father figure and mentor throughout my life. Having him on a special Father’s Day episode of the INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE podcast was a true joy.

This is the very first time Jim has appeared on any podcast; it’s a real honor. We spoke about all three phases of his professional life — math, investing, and philanthropy. We also strayed into the personal — discussing mentorship, parenthood, and legacies.

Hearing him talk about the love he and his father had for each other was moving. The mantra that Jim’s father instilled in him, “Salesmanship is very important,” is an interesting one, especially when it comes to science.

As Jim says, “It’s good to be able to sell something. Even in science — you do some work and you want other people to appreciate it and use it. So you’re kind of selling.”

While science communication is not often described in this way, it is essentially salesmanship. It is an aspect of what we’re doing here at The Arthur C. Clarke Center for Human Imagination, using this podcast as a tool to “sell” remarkable science and scientists.

Image for post

Another great story that came from Jim’s memories of his father is Jim’s first memory of math. At the age of three or four, he stumbled into Zeno’s dichotomy paradox when his father mentioned needing to stop and put gas in the family car.

Jim recounts saying, “Well why don’t you just use half the amount that’s in the tank, and then use half of that, and then use half of that, etc. And you’ll never run out!”

Somehow it’s not hard to imagine Jim as a toddler contemplating mathematical concepts that have stumped generations of thinkers. He has an exceptional mind. We also discuss the beauty he finds in math and, along with that, the art that math creates.

On the Stony Brook University campus, in the Simons Center for Geometry and Physics, is a permanent art installation called Iconic Wall. It includes fundamental equations carved into stone and is iconic in and of itself.

Image for post

Image for post

Jim has over fifty years of experience, providing unparalleled insights about the differences and similarities between academic, corporate, and philanthropic leadership. The main takeaways: hire the right people and be decisive.

Jim’s list of mentors is a who’s who of mathematics. The fact that Shiing-Shen Chern was on sabbatical when Jim arrived at UC Berkeley ready to work with him is undeniable serendipity. Though we can’t know for sure, I suspect their partnership, resulting in the Chern-Simons theory, may not have happened had Simons been Chern’s grad student.

Jim has been a mentor in my own life, one I have been privileged to know my entire life. And thankfully, even though he knew me before I knew myself, he has remained an important figure in my life. It’s always humbling to talk to people who knew me before I became an academic and podcast host extraordinaire.

For this episode, I got to adapt the usual question about monolith inscriptions to place the billion-year time capsule on Asteroid 6618, named Jimsimons. What I refer to as an ethical will is an ancient Jewish document, known as a “Zava’ah” in Hebrew. The Simons Foundation, co-founded with his wife Marilyn, is an obvious example of how Jim’s legacy will live forever.

Image for post

As I’ve discussed before, writing a book seems the best way to pass lessons down through history. I’m pleased to hear Jim say that writing a book is in his plans for his upcoming retirement. And that his daughter urges him to, as have I.

In our discussion of legacies, Jim was quick to weigh his many accomplishments against a lifestyle of setting a good example. What a simple yet powerful notion.

“The most important science is political science,” he says. “It teaches us how to live together. If we can’t learn to live together, we’re going to die together. We have to learn to live together.”

I want to wish Jim a Happy Father’s Day and thank him for his role in my life, personally and professionally. And Happy Father’s Day to our listeners and viewers as well. Thanks for spending the holiday with INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE!

Books we discussed in this episode:

The Captain by Jan De Hartog. Jim’s favorite book on leadership.

Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln by Doris Kearns Goodwin

The Man Who Solved the Market: How Jim Simons Launched the Quant Revolution by Greg Zuckerman

Watch the INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE interview with author Greg Zuckerman.

Learn more about the Simons Observatory and follow its progress on Twitter @SimonsObs.

Learn more about the Simons Foundation and follow them on Twitter @SimonsFdn

Find Brian Keating on Twitter @DrBrianKeating and YouTube

Please subscribe, rate, and review the INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE Podcast on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-impossible/id1169885840?mt=2

Jim Simons earned a Ph.D. in mathematics from UC Berkeley at the age of 23. He worked as a mathematician for the NSA and as a professor and department chair at Stony Brook University. Simons earned billions after founding the hedge fund firm Renaissance Technologies. He co-founded the Simons Foundation with his wife Marilyn in 1994 to advance scientific research. The foundation provided funding for the Simons Observatory, a telescope array being built in Chile. Simons also founded Math For America in 2004 to facilitate better math education.

Key Takeaways

  •  Jim recites a quote from Leonard Baum: “Bad ideas are good, good ideas are terrific, no ideas is terrible”
    • When you’re doing science, you have a lot of bad ideas but the good ideas make up for the bad ones
  • Jim’s leadership strategy: “Hire the very best people you possible can and I have good taste in people. And then, let them carry the ball.”
  • Jim earned a Ph.D. in mathematics from UC Berkeley at the age of 23
  • Is math invented or discovered?
    • “It’s both. Every true theorem is out there.” – Jim Simons
      • The number of true theorems and definitions is infinite
        • “It’s a creative act to find something interesting in a creative field and in an infinite collection of things. It’s out there but you have to find it.”
  • Is math a form of art?
    • “Mathematics definitely is characterized by beauty” – Jim Simons
  • What does Jim do with the billions of dollars he’s earned?
    • “Most of the money I earned is now in our foundations. I think I have only 10 or 15% of the money that I’ve earned that’s not in the foundations.” – Jim Simons
  •  “If we can’t learn to live together, we’re going to die together” – Jim Simons

  • “Find something that you really like, better still really love and then put your heart and soul into it” – Jim Simons

Intro

  • James Harris Simons (@SimonsFdn) is an American mathematician, billionaire hedge fund manager, and philanthropist.

  • Host: Brian Keating (@DrBrianKeating)

Books Mentioned

About Jim Simons

  • Jim Simons defines himself as 3 things: “I’ve been a mathematician. I have run an investment fund and now a foundation”
  • Jim recites a quote from Leonard Baum: “Bad ideas are good, good ideas are terrific, no ideas is terrible”

    • When you’re doing science, you have a lot of bad ideas but the good ideas make up for the bad ones

Leadership Advice

  • Jim’s leadership strategy: “Hire the very best people you possible can and I have good taste in people. And then, let them carry the ball.”
  • Another tip: It’s better to make a decision and adjust afterward then to keep procrastinating
  • When there was a major decision to be made, Jim would announce his plan and then let people debate other details of the plan
  • Jim admires a lot of people but he only has one hero: Abraham Lincoln

Jim’s Love of Math

  • One of Jim’s favorite books is Euclid’s Elements by Euclid
  • Math was the only subject Jim enjoyed in grammar and high school
    • “The subject that I loved was mathematics” – Jim Simons
      • Jim learned calculus in high school
  • For college, he went to MIT to study math
    • He took a graduate-level course as a freshman because he was interested in it and he didn’t need any prerequisites to enroll
      • Jim fell in love with differential geometry in his third year of college: “I loved it, I just loved it and felt I would do very well with that”. He says Stokes’ theorem was the “most beautiful theorem I ever saw”.
  • Jim earned a Ph.D. in mathematics from UC Berkeley at the age of 23.
  • Is math invented or discovered?
    • “It’s both. Every true theorem is out there.” – Jim Simons. The number of true theorems and definitions is infinite. “It’s a creative act to find something interesting in a creative field and in an infinite collection of things. It’s out there but you have to find it.”
  • Is math a form of art?
    • “Mathematics definitely is characterized by beauty” – Jim Simons
  • Math isn’t just for young people:

    • “Young people can do terrific things but the older people can do good stuff too” – Jim Simons

View on Money

  • What does Jim do with the billions of dollars he’s earned?
    • “Most of the money I earned is now in our foundations. I think I have only 10 or 15% of the money that I’ve earned that’s not in the foundations.” – Jim Simons
  • Jim enjoys being wealthy and having his boat, airplane, and houses

    • He also enjoys using his money to fund foundations and interesting scientific projects

Hedge Fund & Returns

  • Beta is the returns of the stock market as a whole. Alpha is the excess returns of an investment.
  • Jim’s strategy for his hedge fund was to hire the best people and always try to find new predictive signals
    • Jim’s fund use a large number of signals, all of which are independent
    • Sometimes a signal loses relevance and you have to discard it
      • Ex. Following the trend of commodities
    • Signals also lose their effect if too many  other people are using them

      • “We have awfully smart people and they keep coming up with new signals…and we’ve stayed ahead” – Jim Simons

Mentors & Partners

  • Jim used to be the chairman of the math department at Stony Brook University .A lot of people in academic don’t want to the position of department chair because it takes them away from doing research but Jim actually wanted the role
    • He would help PhD students find problems worth working on and meet with them every week
  • Two of Jim’s mentors were Isadore Singer and Warren Ambrose
  • Jim also learned a lot and worked with Shiing-Shen Chern

    • Together, they discovered the Chern–Simons theory and Chern-Simons form. Jim believes their work deserves a Nobel Prize. Jim was astounded to discover that his findings in mathematics could be applied to physics: “You never know where basic science will go, you just never know” – Jim Simons

Additional Notes

  • Jim exercises for an hour 5 days a week
  • Jim worked as a code cracker at the Institute for Defense Analysis for 4 years
  • Jim’s father always showed loved toward him
    • “He was just a lovely man” – Jim Simons
      • His father taught him the importance of sales skills. Even in science, you need to be able to sell your idea to others.
  • Jim loved being a father
  • Jim went to graduate school with Brian Keating’s father
  • Jim wants to be remembered as someone who accomplished a lot in the world and was a good father
  • Jim and his wife both have an asteroid named after them
  • What message would Jim share with everyone?
    • “If we can’t learn to live together, we’re going to die together” – Jim Simons
  • What advice would Jim give to his younger self?

    • “Find something that you really like, better still really love and then put your heart and soul into it” – Jim Simons

[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][/vc_row]